tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post1162792175561453349..comments2024-02-28T02:21:20.040-08:00Comments on Learning from my mistakes: an English teacher's blog: Sexy Sprouts – why I think we need to stop teaching persuasive writing Xris32http://www.blogger.com/profile/12204550583061791755noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-64536762039051968822015-07-19T16:57:16.325-07:002015-07-19T16:57:16.325-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.شركة كشف تسربات المياه وعوازل الاسطحhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10598757628091586659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-64809610179696622472014-10-10T06:02:59.757-07:002014-10-10T06:02:59.757-07:00Chris this has really enlightened me thanks as an ...Chris this has really enlightened me thanks as an engloish teacher myself I couldn't agree more lots of love barney xxxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-68590411623869400052014-03-02T03:14:40.256-08:002014-03-02T03:14:40.256-08:00An interesting perspective. Thank you. You are rig...An interesting perspective. Thank you. You are right to point out that persuading is far more complex than it seems. I don't think that any of the students were convinced to eat sprouts, because they were only novices. They were learning how language can be used for effect. I was challenging how reductive the teaching of persuasive writing has become. Writing with an effect in mind is much better than the purpose, in my opinion. It allows students to engage with their readers more. <br /><br />The reason I chose sprouts was the unlikelihood of people being persuaded by the product. I have done the same with chocolate and the results haven't been as effective. Most people want chocolate so there wasn't much persuading needed. Plus, students, through advertising, had been conditioned with loads of stock clichés and words associated with chocolate. Their writing was just duplicating adverts seen. There was very little engagement with the purpose. Sprouts got them to think. It gave them a challenge. <br /><br />Did writing nicely about sprouts influence anybody to change their minds about sprouts?<br /><br />No, but add a £50 to the writing and they might consider it. ; ) <br /><br /><br />Xris32https://www.blogger.com/profile/12204550583061791755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-68336150039268957332014-03-02T01:47:11.513-08:002014-03-02T01:47:11.513-08:001) There is little discussion of why you would wan...1) There is little discussion of why you would want to persuade somebody in the first place. Persuasion is neutral - you can try to persuade somebody to do the right thing, and equally persuade them to do the wrong thing.<br /><br />A libor fraudster's email that says "i have a huge 1m fixing today and it would really help to have a low 1m tx a lot" is as much an attempt at persuasive writing as Larkin's "we should be careful of each other, we should be kind while there is still time".<br /><br />So teaching persuasive writing looks morally empty from here.<br /><br />2) Some attention should be paid to the reality of effects. Does persuasive writing really persuade? No, I mean really really...<br /><br />If you chuck in a few common rhetorical devices, does that really persuade? Instead of sprouts, consider chocolate: is any persuasive writing about how disgusting chocolate is really going to persuade somebody to avoid it in real life?<br /><br />Did writing nicely about sprouts influence anybody to change their minds about sprouts?<br /><br />It's easy to delude ourselves about effects...Hoovernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-57357317981399181652013-06-22T08:06:27.712-07:002013-06-22T08:06:27.712-07:00Thanks for that Fran. I will try that approach thi...Thanks for that Fran. I will try that approach this week. Great idea. Thanks Xris32https://www.blogger.com/profile/12204550583061791755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-16638989222294282202013-06-22T03:04:28.941-07:002013-06-22T03:04:28.941-07:00Good post and, you're right, we need to (to mi...Good post and, you're right, we need to (to misquote Atticus Finch) get them to step into the reader's shoes and see it from their point of view. As a starter, I tell my classes that they need to make the reader 'make a noise' when they're reading their piece and then we model the different kinds of noises, such as 'Ugh' for 'that disgusts me' or 'Nooooooo!' for 'I can't believe what you're telling me' or 'Ha ha ha ha ha' for 'That is SO funny'. On the other hand, I've just read your Ofsted post too and it's perhaps not something to do as a starter on those days. Fran Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07935088780461825341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-52465394773368473222013-06-19T11:10:07.731-07:002013-06-19T11:10:07.731-07:00Thank you. Thank you. Xris32https://www.blogger.com/profile/12204550583061791755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-10121246787405824832013-06-19T05:33:54.996-07:002013-06-19T05:33:54.996-07:00Really enjoyed this post, and I'll be adapting...Really enjoyed this post, and I'll be adapting this exercise to use with my eager Higher English tutees next term. Thanks for sharing the idea :-)Square Sparrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15229633140027528979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-21722868985070297692013-06-15T23:31:42.122-07:002013-06-15T23:31:42.122-07:00Thank you. I will keep passing that mantra on. But...Thank you. I will keep passing that mantra on. But, I will cite you as the source of it now.; ) Xris32https://www.blogger.com/profile/12204550583061791755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-22013825126285703702013-06-15T23:30:16.606-07:002013-06-15T23:30:16.606-07:00Thanks, Dave. It is good to know that I am not alo...Thanks, Dave. It is good to know that I am not alone on this one. ; ) Xris32https://www.blogger.com/profile/12204550583061791755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-37403580843996911822013-06-15T23:29:48.449-07:002013-06-15T23:29:48.449-07:00Thanks. Yes, it has taken me a while to get there,...Thanks. Yes, it has taken me a while to get there, but I am starting to see that it is about reader experience and not the purpose. ; ) Xris32https://www.blogger.com/profile/12204550583061791755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-14637969267544849282013-06-15T09:55:20.629-07:002013-06-15T09:55:20.629-07:00Also, I think you'll find that the Osted inspe...Also, I think you'll find that the Osted inspector is quoting someone else. "Write like a reader..." has been my mantra since I began teaching, because that is what my English teacher said to me. Glad to see someone else passing on the same philosophy to their students. :-)James Michiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315316572370062027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-90087494909432208522013-06-15T09:48:05.012-07:002013-06-15T09:48:05.012-07:00Hi Chris, thanks very much for this post. It reall...Hi Chris, thanks very much for this post. It really resonates with what we've been discussing in our year 11 gain time this week. We have two schemes of learning in year 8 based around writing triplets, and though I haven't taught them this year, I remember in my NQT year the frustration with these topics. We focused on teaching techniques and getting the students to be familiar with them without looking deep enough into how we wanted the audience to feel. The students were soon expert at writing statistics, facts, rhetorical questions etc. but weren't questioning their choices at all.<br />We are determined to move the focus away from triplets next year. Instead of weeks of writing for different purposes (which I’m sure are no way near as distinct as we choose to present them) we are going to focus on writing. In the words of my colleague:<br />“We get trapped by purpose. We teach writing to blah blah blah, and not just writing to get better.”<br />I’ll be sending this blog the round department. <br />Cheers,<br />Dave<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316884372249589308.post-56064225008709770292013-06-15T09:46:10.880-07:002013-06-15T09:46:10.880-07:00I think it makes absolute sense to write as a writ...I think it makes absolute sense to write as a writer writes - no professional writer would say they were writing "to persuade". They'd say they were writing to make their product sound sophisticated and sexy, or to make their readers outraged about an issue, or to make their readers cry over the fate of a character. It's all about reader experience, and we need to encourage our students to explore that. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com